on your shoulders — and you have broad shoulders — but
there was something in your eyes, there was a light in
your eyes I had not seen before. And I remember saying,
“Something’s di=erent.” And you were saying that rather
than being the one who was inspiring, you were being
inspired. And rather than being the one who was carrying
this cause, it was carrying you. Can you talk about that?
Because I think that’s instructive for all of us.
TIM: I think letting go of that burden had a lot to do with
embracing how good this whole thing has felt. It’s been
so liberating and empowering.
TERRY: To you, personally?
TIM: Yeah. I went into this thinking, It’s worth sacrificing
my freedom for this.
TERRY: And you did it alone. It’s not like you had a
movement behind you, or the support group that you
TIM: Right. But I feel like I did the opposite. I thought
I was sacrificing my freedom, but instead I was grabbing onto my freedom and refusing to let go of it for the
first time, you know? Finally accepting that I wasn’t this
helpless victim of society, and couldn’t do anything to
shape my own future, you know, that I didn’t have that
freedom to steer the course of my life. Finally I said, “I
have the freedom to change this situation. I’m that powerful.” And that’s been a wonderful feeling that I’ve held
onto since then.
TERRY: Are you surprised by this?
TIM: Yeah. And I think that’s where some of that lightness has come from. And also seeing that it’s having
an impact. That it’s firing some other people up, that
it’s embarrassing the government. I mean, one of the
great things about the trial was seeing how vulnerable
the U.S. attorney felt. He was freaking out all the time.
And he was terrified. I mean, the government was terrified just that people showed up for the trial. They were
terrified by the fact that all these other people are worrying about how to keep me out of prison —
TERRY: I’m one of them.
I HAVE A LOT OF HOPE IN MY
GENERATION’S ABILITY TO BUILD
A BETTER WORLD IN THE ASHES OF
THIS ONE. AND I HAVE VERY LITTLE
DOUBT THAT WE’LL HAVE TO.
TIM: [Laughs.] I feel like the goal should be to get other
people in prison. How do we get more people to join
me? Because that’s where the liberation is, that’s where
the e=ectiveness is.
TERRY: Is that the only alternative?
TIM: No. [Pause.] But it’s one that feels good.
TERRY: For you.
TERRY: So what are some of the alternatives for those
who maybe don’t have that option. Maybe they’ve got
children. You know what I’m saying?
TIM: Well, everybody has a reason why they can’t.
TERRY: But I was aware when I was arrested in front of
the White House, protesting during the buildup to the
Iraq war, that when I looked around, it was a lot easier
for me to be arrested than others, you know? I didn’t
have a traditional job, I didn’t have children. I mean,
some people have more at stake than others. And you’re
right, there’s every reason not to. But I’m just playing
devil’s advocate. Civil disobedience is one path. It’s a
path I’ve personally chosen at times — certainly not with
the stakes as high as they are for you. But it’s an act that
I powerfully support and believe in and have subscribed
to. But what about other alternatives?
TIM: If people aren’t willing to go to jail, there are alternatives in which they can be powerful and e=ective. But
if people feel they’ve got too much to lose— they’ve got